Triangle Quiz

[mbhaub]

Hello everyone. Last week I played a concert and the Brahms 4th took up the second half. Before playing it the misguided conductor rambles on to the audience about how inappropriate the triangle part was in the third movement. He thought it doesn't fit and sounds so out of place. And many musicologists agree with his thinking. Well, I've never heard anyone say it's wrong. So after the concert I was talking to the maestro and informed him that there are actually many works for orchestra where the triangle is the sole percussion instrument. Name one, he said. So off the top of my head I said the Liszt 1st piano concerto, the Dvorak New World -- ok, there's one (1!) cymbal scrape in the finale but it's played by the timpanist, and the Kalinnikov First Symphony. He harrumphed away, but later called and wanted to know what else only had a triangle for percussion. I think he's going to build a concert on this theme, yikes!

So the question I put to you for help: what symphonies/concertoes/overtures are there where the only instrument a drummer needs is his triangle?

[Amphissa]

The Dvorak 9 is scored for timpani as well as triangle. The Liszt 1st concerto is scored for timpani, cymbals, triangle and bass drum. The Kalinnikov includes timpani as well. The Brahms second concerto has timpani.

So I do not understand why you say they have triangle as the "sole percussion instrument".

[TerraEpon]

Timpani usually doesn't count along with percussion, so Dvorak 9 and Brahms 2nd PC would count.
I think mbhaub is especially interested in the pieces where the percussion player (which is different from a timpani player, at least in a profession orchestras) only has the triangle to play.


(Edit: My god, my writing was horrid on this post...)

[JimL]

Brahms' 2nd PC has no triangle.  Timpani are, in fact, percussion instruments, but for much of the 18th and early 19th Centuries they counted as the bass line for the trumpet parts (by the same logic that French horns were included in "woodwind" quintets).  It was the Litolff Concertos Symphoniques Nos. 4 & 5 that included triangles in the orchestra, but only in the scherzi.  So far as I know, there are plenty of symphonies by Raff where the triangle is the only percussion instrument (aside from the timpani).  The Forest and Summer symphonies come readily to mind.  Schumann's Spring Symphony (#1) uses a triangle in the first movement.  Should have used it in the finale as well, but he didn't.  That's all I can think of off the top of my head.  I'll search the basal ganglia later.
     

[Mark Thomas]

The only percussion instrument which Raff used was the triangle and it appears in these works: Symphonies Nos. 3, 5, 7, 9 & 11 (obviously something about odd-numbered symphonies!), the Aus Thüringen Suite and the Macbeth Prelude.

[John H White]

Don't forget about the complete set of percussion in the March of the Lenore Symphony Mark. Having copied out the whole symphony into Noteworthy software, I ought to know!  One symphony in which very good use of the triangle was made was Hans Rott's 1st Symphony in E. In fact, the conductor of the first recording of that work decided that the composer had over done the triangle part  and cut it down accordingly!

[JimL]

I was going to point that out, too, John, although I was wondering if there is anything but a snare drum besides the triangle.  I don't recall cymbals or bass drum in the march movement of Lenore.  BTW, here are another batch of concertos in which the triangle is the only percussion other than the kettledrums: Xaver Scharwenka's 4th PC (2nd mvt.), his 3rd PC (1st and 3rd mvts.), the Moszkowski PC (3rd mvt.) and, of course, the finale of the Dvorak Cello Concerto.

[mbhaub]

Thanks for all the help! How did I miss some of those? The Scherzo to Amy Beach's symphony also only uses triangle.

I should have been clear, but several of you thankfully took care of it. In orchestras, the percussion section is separate from the timpani player. Just try to get a timpanist to fill in and cover a part! Yes, tubs (as timpani are lovingly called) are percussive since they are struck. The Raff 5th march is only snare drum and triangle (I've played that part).

[Hofrat]

Joachim Eggert scored in his C-major and C-minor symphonies full percussion sections:  timpani, triangle, cymbals, and bass drum.

[JimL]

This guy Eggert sounds more interesting all the time.  If his tunes and developmental skills are as memorable as his orchestrations he may be one of the major finds to come to light in this forum.