Which unsungs are on their way to becoming 'sung' - and vice versa?

[Gareth Vaughan]

Perhaps concertos sell better than symphonies, though.

Simon Perry at Hyperion did tell me once that, by and large, CDs of concertos do seem to do better than symphonies - unless, sadly, they are recordings of the same old, same old...
I find this odd - and it doesn't seem to hold true everywhere: just look at the number of interesting unsung symphonies recorded by CPO. They wouldn't keep on producing these if they didn't sell.

[Maury]

Mr Vaughan,

It might be a UK - Germany difference for the symphony. I would have to agree with Simon Perry at least in the US and Canada.

[Alan Howe]

Well, cpo are doing a fine job on the symphony, so I expect that to continue.

And the sniffy attitude to Korngold extended far past the Violin Concerto. Even the usually reliable Opera Magazine UK barfed over Korngold's Die Tote Stadt all through the 80s and 90s.

My memory goes way back, though - certainly before Korngold's operas were recorded. My copy of the Penguin Stereo Record Guide (1975) has just three entries, two of the VC (Heifetz, Hoelscher) and one of the Symphony (Kempe), with the usual comments on the VC such as 'touches of kitsch that justify the tired but true quip about more Korn than gold'. Oh dear.

I don't think we can complain too much with regard to recordings of Korngold nearly fifty years later...

[Alan Howe]

Just a quick further observation: not all of Samuel Barber's music is suitable for discussion here.

[Maury]

Just to clarify. UK Magazine's references were to occasional stage performances of Die Tote Stadt and I think in one case Violanta from the 50s on into the early Oughts. Has any other fine composer ever suffered such sustained abuse (distinct from neglect)?

But yes I take your point about Korngold recordings particularly since many have excellent sonics and performances. Korngold's music seems to draw out musicians in the most positive way. And I still regularly play the original vinyl box by Leinsdorf et al. The singers never sounded better and a performance that equals the v Matacic Die Lustige Witwe. Penguin's Witwe comment "more theatrical than the stage" could be echoed for the Leinsdorf.

[Maury]

Just a quick further observation: not all of Samuel Barber's music is suitable for discussion here.

I understand the caution with composers far past the WW1 cutoff. Anyway based on the bachtrack results I am going to dial back on comments of both Korngold and Barber as I think they are moving out of the Unsung category (although things could always change).

[Alan Howe]

I understand the caution with composers far past the WW1 cutoff.

With respect, we expect a bit more than caution:
<<Please do not post about composers or compositions which clearly fall outside our definition of "romantic". Your post will not be approved. If you are in any doubt, and in any event if the music was written after 1918, please email or PM a moderator before posting.>>
https://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,3681.0.html

[Alan Howe]

Has any other fine composer ever suffered such sustained abuse

Yes: Raff, and for far longer. A much more important composer also.

[Maury]

Re Raff. I wasn't aware of that. I thought it was just neglect, but things don't necessarily all travel over the Atlantic. Another fine composer unjustly maligned then. But his situation on bachtrack is still dire. When you have fewer performances than Glazunov you know you are in trouble.

[Alan Howe]

No, not mere neglect, but a wholesale dismissal of his importance and achievement. Beyond recordings, it's still going on.

[John Boyer]

I do agree with Alan that most of Barber doesn't belong here, not only stylistically but in the whole question of being unsung. Therefore, in the spirit of our guidelines and the ancient tradition of apophasis, I will not mention my opinion that he never really was an unsung composer, having been celebrated throughout his lifetime and beyond, nor will I discuss as evidence works like "The School for Scandal" or the first and second Essays, which have remained in the repertory of orchestras since his death in 1981.

[eschiss1]

I would suggest not relying solely on BachTrack as a meter, btw.

[Maury]

eschiss As a scientist I am familiar with the issue of non-random samples. But at least bachtrack is not tied to a particular locale or genre. Russian composers because of the present conflict are certainly systematically under represented due to bachtrack restrictions, but home country performance in general is almost a category unto itself in most cases.. If you have an issue with any of the comparisons I made for composers Not named Korngold or Barber I would be very interested in learning about it. I do not want to be inaccurate but just gave the best swag at this I could manage.

[Alan Howe]

Let's leave the issue of evidence here and move on, please - particularly as Barber doesn't fit here and Korngold has clearly migrated to the 'sung' category, both in concerts/on the operatic stage and in recordings.

[eschiss1]

Maury: please don't assume why someone says something when it's better to ask. BachTrack depends on self-reporting, so it underreports ensembles and performances from very many countries, the US included.