The most Beethovenian unsung PC?

[Alan Howe]

OK, suggestions, please! What would friends say is the most Beethovenian unsung piano concerto? My candidate would be the Piano Concerto in C, Op.7 (1811) by Friedrich Kuhlau.

[John Hudock]

I'll give a vote to the Hummel A Minor and B Minor concertos. Though he's most often compared to Mozart or Mendelssohn I find the power and virtuosity of these concertos reminiscent of Beethoven. As Beethoven was a bridge between Haydn and Brahms, Hummel was a bridge between Mozart and Mendelssohn/Chopin. So I always think of him as a parallel to Beethoven.

Interesting side note on Hummel piano concertos. This is from the NY Times, December 9, 1893 (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=950DE4DE113BEF33A2575AC0A9649D94629ED7CF)

THE SYMPHONY SOCIETY.; An Interesting Revival of a Hummel Piano Concerto.

No doubt many persons were surprised when they read the announcement that Vladimir de Pachmann would play one of Johann Nepomuk Hummel's piano concertos at yesterday's afternoon concert of the Symphony Society. Hummel's name is unknown to the average music lover of to-day, and it was only the initiated who could perceive a reason for the peculiar little Russian's choice.

[thalbergmad]

Perhaps Woelfl 1 or Tomasek 1 for the earlier Beethoven PC's.

The last 2 are arguably incomparable.

Thal

[John Hudock]

The last 2 are arguably incomparable.

Incomparable? I've often told my daughter that my (rather poor) piano playing has been compared to Rubenstein! Someone once heard me play and said "Rubenstein you're not!". 

(Old jokes never die, I know because I retell them so often).

[Alan Howe]

Tomasek PC1 sounds to me like a cross between Mozart and early Beethoven - definitely not as Beethovenian as the Kuhlau. Likewise the Wölfl. Hummel in A minor or B minor are interesting suggestions - the Beethovenian Sturm und Drang is certainly there, but there is also a proto-Chopinesqe lyricism which is quite unlike Beethoven.

[chill319]

Unheard by me but knowing other works by Ries, it's hard to imagine that the Ries Concerto Opus 55 doesn't sound Beethovenian through and through. Checking the responses on Amazon, I find this:

"When I first heard the Ries Piano Concerto Op. 55 about a hundred years ago, on an RCA recording with Felicja Blumenthal, I was taken aback that a composer who could write music of such power was so little known. I noted the clear similarities to Beethoven's style..."

[edurban]

Ries c#minor is a wonderful concerto, but it resembles Hummel much more than Beethoven.  B would have scorned the long stretches of purely decorative/virtuosic passagework, which look forward to Chopin more than they look back to Ries' master.

I'm with Alan on this: Kuhlau 1 is easily the most Beethovenian concerto (I know) never written by Beethoven.  In fact, it is so like B's C major concerto, that it's pretty obvious K used the older concerto as a template.  The last movement of K. C major even features an episode which is a virtual inversion of an episode in the last movment of B. C major.  And vigorously/noisily scored in the Kuhlau manner...  Terrific fun.

Makes you wonder what Kuhlau 2, destroyed in his disastrous house fire, was like.  I'll bet it was more like Hummel...

David

[Peter1953]

Kuhlau's concerto is like a clone of Beethoven's op. 15 (1795-96). It sounds almost like plagiarism. I wonder what Beethoven would have thought by Kuhlau's imitation.
Having said this, I love the Kuhlau with its gorgeous opening of the orchestra (114 bars of tutti) before the piano enters so resolutely, full of power, those sparkling themes throughout the whole concerto.
I don't know of any other Beethovenian unsung (or sung) piano concerto, but which composer could or dared to come close to the Nos. 4 and 5? Those monumental masterpieces.

It's a nice thread, Alan. I almost started a similar thread but as a subject the piano sonatas. Only Ludwig Berger's sonata comes immediately to mind. But this is off-topic.

[Gemini]

Hi all,

New to this forum - a true gem.

This question sparkled my interest for I have searched my fair share for - having heard enough Beethoven for the moment - Beethovenian concertos.

The Kuhlau concerto indeed is an obvious one.

Next comes to my mind the C major concerto of Ries, his #6. The piano entrance alone could be Beethoven I'd say.

Also the Lessel concerto in C major has a Beethovenian ring to it, in my opinion.

Funny noticing that most suggestions are C major compositions. Did Beethoven set a new benchmark then?

Hans

[joelingaard]

Ferdinand Ries is a definite favorite for his piano concertos (and symphonies). We are lucky to have recordings today that we can all enjoy.

[eschiss1]

I'd add the Dussek G minor Op.49/50, which is close in general style but also at least noteworthy in organizational skill and other qualities, since "Beethovenian" does -not- refer, in general use, to merely stylistic similarities (usually) (and so btw I also disagree with several of the examples above). (The notes to the modern full score of the work uploaded to IMSLP have some interesting things to say about the concerto.) (I agree in admiring and enjoying Ries and Kuhlau, though.)