Frederic Cowen

[semloh]

... found myself tapping along on the steering-wheel(wretched bad practice, I know ), particularly to the Highland Concerto. (Helps being Scottish myself, I suppose

Some bagpipes would have nicely rounded off the experience though! (ok - won't go back there again!)  I think you missed our exchanges on that subject Dundonnell!

[albion]

In lieu of a decent orchestral recording (I do a good line in Marco Polo coasters for very hot drinks) here is Cowen's Concert Overture The Butterfly's Ball (1901) most beautifully rendered by a pianola ("Look Ma, no hands!") -

http://www.mediafire.com/?xauyvcl6n0travh

[Jimfin]

I am very keen to hear some more Cowen. While I agree that there are thin moments in the symphonies I've heard (ie 3&6), there is much that's beautiful in them, especially in the 6th. I bought that disc to hear the Coleridge-Taylor, but ended up listening far more to the Cowen. It would be good to hear the 4th and 5th. Personally I find Parry's symphonies a lot duller, apart from the 5th, though I love all of Stanford's.

[Mark Thomas]

I pretty much agree with all that you say (including your comments on the symphonies of Parry and Stanford) but I do find that Cowen's symphonies tend to run out of steam. The 6th is a more convincing work than the 3rd, but even it flaps around a bit in the finale. The best I have heard of him is the Concertstuck for Piano and Orchestra, recently released by Hyperion. That's a great piece.

[Alan Howe]

Jimfin: <<Personally I find Parry's symphonies a lot duller, apart from the 5th, though I love all of Stanford's.>>

I can't possibly agree with you on the contrast between Cowen's and Parry's symphonies. Parry is a giant by comparison.

[Mark Thomas]

I hastily misread Jimfin's post! I was comparing Parry and Stanford's Alan.  I do agree that Cowen is an also ran by comparison with those two, but I'd still like to hear more of his work and it does contain some lovely moments.

[Alan Howe]

Sorry, Mark, I wasn't being very clear: it was Jimfin's post I was objecting to! I've now amended my last post to that effect...

[albion]

Personally I find Parry's symphonies a lot duller, apart from the 5th

I can't possibly agree with you on the contrast between Cowen's and Parry's symphonies. Parry is a giant by comparison.

I don't think that two these positions are mutually exclusive. Perhaps Jimfin was expressing an opinion as to what he would prefer to listen to rather than making a categorical judgement on the worth or otherwise of Parry (at least that was how I read it).

I find Bach duller than Vivaldi and listen to him out of duty rather than for pleasure, likewise I find Britten duller than Arnold but I'm absolutely convinced that the former in each case is the greater composer. Some find Bruckner dull, some (would you credit it) even find Tovey dull - to find something dull does not necessarily imply a negation of it's value but usually merely highlights a personal taste that others might or might not share.

Parry is certainly the greater musical thinker and at his best (as in the 5th Symphony, singled out for praise by Jimfin) reaches both a height of technique and a depth of emotion that still makes one wonder at his parochial reputation, but Cowen (with all his structural insecurity) is still the more original melodist and the better colourist.

[Alan Howe]

IMHO we haven't  the (recorded) evidence to support the assertion that Cowen was the more original melodist.

[albion]

Fair enough, given that so little actually has been performed within living memory.



I can only judge from the piano, vocal and full scores that I have.

[Alan Howe]

I do agree about Cowen's gifts as a colourist. But I'm not convinced about his credentials as a symphonist, enjoyable as the ClassicO CD is: there are just too many pulled punches and too much meandering about for him to make much impact. I do like The Idyllic, though: it's a very nice listen.

[albion]

I'm not convinced about his credentials as a symphonist [...] there are just too many pulled punches and too much meandering about for him to make much impact. I do like The Idyllic, though: it's a very nice listen.

This is a very fair assessment - it won't find any argument from me.

[Jimfin]

Sorry, I may have cause some confusion. I think it's fairly obvious that both Parry and Stanford were considerably greater than Cowen appears to be, but yes, I do find Cowen's melody and the orchestration of the 6th more enchanting than many of Parry's symphonies, and I would like the chance to assess the 4th and 5th and get a decent recording of the 3rd as well. I cannot possibly make claims for Cowen on so little evidence, so I wasn't really comparing. But I do often find Parry a bit lifeless in his orchestral music, the Elegy for Brahms, the Overture to an Unwritten Tragedy. Among the Symphonies, no. 1 leaves me fairly cold, no. 3 is delightful but even Parry was reluctant to give it the title 'Symphony', no. 4 took a lot of revision to make it worthy, whereas I am pretty keen on all of Stanford's, which are full of life, thrust and colour, from the first onwards.
     I think it's worth remembering that Cowen was a performed and praised symphonist before either Stanford and Parry, and the 'Scandinavian' had an international reputation. Its charm manages to shine through (just) even the ghastly Marco Polo performance.

[eschiss1]

depending on your score-reading ability, quite a few of Cowen's symphonic scores are available online, which is a start anyway...

[Jimfin]

Mm, my score-reading ability is pretty poor, unfortunately, and I don't even have a piano to aid me in my flat in Japan. I suppose I could have a go for the sake of the challenge!