The Raff Symphonies: which one is your favourite and why?

[Peter1953]

Dear Raffians,

It is very likely that this topic has already been discussed in the former Forum. In that case my apologies for re-addressing this subject, but I cannot remember your opinions anymore. And maybe your thoughts have changed in the meantime. Hence this thread, for I believe that Raff's symphonies belong to his most important output.

Over the past days I have listened to all symphonies again. Except for #1 (Rhenish PO) I have them all performed by the Bamberger Symphoniker.

Raff's Lenore, with its attractive and delightful 2nd and 3rd movements, and Im Walde, already after 21 seconds with the characteristic "Raffian" winds, are commonly seen as Raff's most popular symphonies.
However, mine is still his first, An das Vaterland. Is it because it is the first Raff symphony on CD which I have bought? Is it the story behind the title, the programmatic element, a patriotic hint (Was ist des deutschen Vaterland? Interesting enough, since Raff's origin is Swiss)? No, not for me. It is just the music itself. The first movement is not even that special, but then it begins. A lovely scherzo and catchy, melodic fourth and fifth movements. But for me Raff never wrote such a great movement as the larghetto of his opus 96 again. A serene start, but then, after 6 minutes comes an unparallelled outburst of emotions in the middle part, ending in the same peaceful mood.
Of course, it's all a matter of personal taste, but this music touches the heart and makes the symphony not only my Raff's number one, but ranks Raff definitely between all Great Composers. Not so many celebrated romantic symphony composers wrote such a firstling. Maybe Brahms, Mendelssohn, Schumann and Tchaikovsky. Without doubt Raff belongs to these great "symphonists", which makes it hard to bear that his music is now so unjustified neglected.

Enough said. My question to all of you is: what is your favourite Raff symphony, and why?

[Alan Howe]

I find this hard to answer. I have always thought that Raff's four greatest symphonies are nos. 2-5 and that they represent perfectly the competing tendencies within his eleven works in the genre. Thus nos. 3 and 5 contain his most vivid scene-painting, whereas nos. 2 and 4 represent his concern for absolute music at its best. To put it somewhat simplistically we find the competing tendencies of Romanticism and Classicism.

Beyond this I find it harder and harder to choose. On different days I would be happy with any one of these as my favourite - although Im Walde, and especially that wonderfully evocative first movement, probably presses the right buttons for me more than the others...

Having said which I am very fond of No.6 too. Ah well...

[FBerwald]

I have only heard  No. 3 Im Walde and No. 10 Zur Herbstzeit...so No. 3 is my natural choice with the largo favorite; I find the beautiful woodwind passages languorously beautiful with the sudden piu mosso middle passage . I'm waiting to hear No. 5 . I know this is a discussion about Raff symphonies but there is one other symphony that has had an impression on me (beside the obvious Berwald No. 3) - Kallinikov's Symphony No. 1. 

[Ilja]

Preference tends to vary, although I have some problems with #3. Not that I don't acknowledge its quality, but I don't really love it the way I do certain others. The ones that I play most often are, in order of frequency, #11, #5, #8, #1, #6 and then the rest (according to iTunes).

I can't quite explain where that fondness for #11 comes from, but it is one of those rare pieces I can always listen to.

[Mark Thomas]

On different days you get different answers from me but overall Alan has pre-empted me by writing pretty much what I would have written. Nos. 2-5 show Raff at his best.

Amongst the Seasons quartet though, the Spring, Summer and Autumn symphonies are let down for me only by their finales whereas, in contrast to Alan, I still find only the slow movement funeral march of the Sixth Symphony a really convincing piece of work. Isolated movements of some other symphonies are touched with genius too but overall I relegate the First, Seventh and Eleventh, enjoyable though they are, to the status of definite also-rans.

That said, overall the Symphony No.5 Lenore would be my choice if I had to narrow it down to one. The soaring, joyful first movement and the tender, sexy second are perfect illustrations of different aspects of love and the finale is as sure footed and downright exciting a piece of programme music as anything in the Sinfonie Fantastique. Sure, the third movement march sounds a bit simplistic on a recording but it's very effective in the concert hall, and the Trio section is a wonderfully tragic evocation of separation which comes as a shock in the middle of all that military triumphalism. The whole work has all of Raff's characteristic melodiousness and imaginative orchestration whilst still needing quite modest forces. To cap it all, it concludes with that serene and increasingly ethereal apotheosis which, even after knowing the work for almost forty years, seldom fails to move me.

[John H White]

I find this question rather difficult to answer. I'd need to play through all the recordings I have 2 or 3 times to definitely make up my mind. I do find No 1 a bit too long and pompous for me, but that might be due to the slow tempi adopted by Friedman on the 20 year old Marco Polo CD. Off the top of my head, I would say its going to be a toss up between No 2 with its brilliant scherzo and No 10 with its splendid hunting finale.

[Hofrat]

Number 9 for me.  It is a wonderful affirmation of life.

[JimL]

I'm with you on that.  I think the finale of the 9th is much stronger when it hasn't had its guts whacked out with a red editor's pen.

But as far as favorites are concerned #5 does it for me. 

[mbhaub]

No question: no. 5. Then 3. Lenore has so much going for it. The first movement is just thrilling. It moves along rapidly, doesn't get off course, has clear-cut themes. I just love the closing group of the exposition (third theme?). So exciting and hair-raising. The second movement so beautiful. The third movement, which I have played in concert, seems cheap and trivial at first, but when done properly (Bernard Herrmann!) it's very effective. The last movement is the problem. Finales were problems for many composers. This one works when the conductor doesn't try to be pretty. It needs to be played with a lot of strength and intensity. Great symphony. Too bad it isn't played in our concert halls.

[Lew]

Hello everyone.

The order I got to know his symphonies was something like this: 5, 3, 8, 4, 9, 1, 2, 7, 6, 10, 11 and for many years the 9th was my favourite. Then, Adriano, a Swiss music producer and old friend, who'd sent me my original recording of the 9th, sent me a radio dub he'd made of the 7th and gradually this elbowed the 9th into 2nd place. I think it's partly the Raff vitality, with his characteristic long musical thoughts that captivate me in number 7 (the 9th has these in abundance too.) I'm afraid I've never been 'In the Alps', but I think the composer gives me a picture of them in this work.

The 7th is rarely mentioned and, it seems, is one of the least popular of his symphonies, but for me, it's the favourite.

Cheers,  Lew Lewis

[Alexander_Glazraffstein]

I also find It is hard to decide, because of I love all Raff music taht I had chance to listen to.
Maybe, the 3rd, "In the Forest" would be considered a masterwork of the Romantic Era.
Greetings from Barcelona, Spain.


Fernando Oliva (now, I am back to the Forum under the nickname Alexander_Glazraffstein).
   

[Mark Thomas]

Welcome back Fernando!   

[Ilja]

Yes Fernando, we've missed you. Hope you and your family are OK!

[JimL]

Right on schedule Fernando!

[Alexander_Glazraffstein]

Dear friends and Rafficionados:

Many thanks for your warm welcome!
I am glad to come back to meet you. I will follow enjoying your expert thougts and recommendations.
I just would add the weakest Raff Symphony, in my opinion is the 1st. "To the Fatherland", along with the two last movements of the 8th. Symphony.
Now as for my family, they are doing okay. My baby girl likes the music! She even had dinner on listening to the Liszt "Battle of the Huns"... 
Greetings from Barcelona,


Fernando.