The Raff Symphonies: which one is your favourite and why?

[matesic]

From their web site: "ISP gathers players who are active in various orchestras. Perform "experiments" regardless of existing concepts aiming to explore new "value perspective". It is an amateur orchestra".
The first and last sentences make sense, but the second?

[FBerwald]

If it's a translation from Japanese then it makes complete sense that it doesn't make any sense. Eg. Yasujirō Ozu's beautiful movies have some horrible subtitles even though you get a general idea what's being said on screen.

[gprengel]

I must confess that I got to know Raff only just recently - through this website! Thank you for pointing me to him. Last weekend I listened to symphonies 1 - 5. What I can say so far: I love

- the slow movement of #1,
- mov. 2 - 3 of #2,
- mov. 1 and the wonderful ending of mov. 4 of #3
- mov. 1 - 3 of #4
- only the solemn ending of #5

As a whole I adore the 4th symphony the most and I am surprised that in this thread this one was hardly refered to at all - what a powerful work!!!

Which overtures can you recommend to me?

[Alan Howe]

Perhaps you would care to give us the reasons for your preferences, Gerd?

[Mark Thomas]

It depends what you respond to in Raff's music, I suppose but, as has recently been touched on in another thread, you can't go wrong with the late Preludes to Shakespeare's Tempest, Macbeth, Romeo & Juliet and Othello. They're powerful, highly inventive and technically advanced min-symphonic poems which really pack a punch. The opera overtures, apart from that to King Alfred, are all modelled on Rossini's: light, frothy pieces of fun. The best of the three concert overtures, just in my opinion of course, is the Festival Overture, which showcases one of Raff's most glorious melodic inventions. Although it's not an overture, it's also worth listening to his Elegie, a powerful piece which was the original slow movement of the 10th Symphony.

I'm surprised that you didn't find much to commend at least the first two movements of Lenore, the Fifth Symphony, Gerd. Why not?

[gprengel]

I re-listened to the 5th now several times - and I have changed my assessment of the work now! First I was a irritated by the fast rushing tempo of the first movements beginning  and did not see much substance there so that I didn't even listen to the whole movement. By now I love the jubilent outburst of joy at the end of the exposition and recapitulation and I realise that these fast phrases at the beginning just head to that outburst as a climax of joy. Also the slow movement with these long drawn  melodies I appreciate now very much, but really fantastic is the joyful and powerful Scherzo and the soo wonderful and unique choral at the end of the 4th movement!

Still the 4th symphony in g-minor is my favourite. There I don't love only certain passages but every portion of the first 3 movements captivated me when listening to it last weekend. I want to study the score until I can share my impressions in more detail ...

[Mark Thomas]

I'm glad you reassessed Lenore - it really is a wonderfully inventive work, and I too think the redemptive chorale at the end is a masterstroke. Maybe you were listening to the Neeme Järvi recording? After many, many hearings I feel that he definitely takes the opening bars too fast. In my earlier reply about the overtures I forgot to mention Ein feste Burg ist unser Gott, which is a very powerful work, based on the famous Lutheran hymn, and another composition well worth a listen.

[Alan Howe]

It may be that, in the symphonies, Gerd prefers the 'classical Raff' to the 'programmatic Raff'. I personally do in general, although I still think his greatest symphony is Im Walde.

[FBerwald]

I agree with Alan. No. 3 is perhaps the greatest of his earlier Symphonies; but there's something to be said about the Seasons cycle. I can't choose between anyone of them. All of them have something facsinating to offer. Winter, initially was an ugly duckling for me but now, it's something I go back to quite often. 

[Alan Howe]

I played No.10 (Stadlmaier) to a church social group yesterday and they applauded at the end!

[gprengel]

yes, Mark, first I was listening to the Järvi recording, now I alsway listen to this with the score :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1gG2FI7Kbc

and the more I do this the more I get enthusiastic about this  symphony! The second theme in the slow movement at 18:18 is just gorgeous!!! These kind of long melodies in the strings so far I knew only in Berlioz' Symphony Fantastique slow Movement or Tschaikowsky ... WOW !!

[Alan Howe]

Herrmann's is a classic recording, but surely too slow? A bit like Klemperer in Beethoven - great, but are we sure this is how the music really should go?

[terry martyn]

It was the  enthusiastic review in the Gramaphone that caused me to rush out and buy the Herrmann and a lifelong affection for Raff commenced. He might take the music more slowly than the composer intended, but I can forgive him for that,as the revelatory end justifies the means. Jarvi sounds to my ears just a little too fast.

[Mark Thomas]

Raff is fast. My take fwiw is that Järvi is by some way the best of the bunch we have barring the very opening of the work, where he's too fast, and the final chorale, where his tempo could also be slower. In all other respects, for me he takes the crown.

[Jonathan]

I still have the Järvi Chandos 5th symphony on my wants list - I really ought to buy it!  I did get his recording of the 2nd a few weeks ago but I've not had time to give it a spin yet.