Chris Fifield's new book...

[Mark Thomas]

I've sampled a few pages and, as you might expect, those few pages were Chris' discussion on Raff and his symphonies nos.1, 2, 4 and 6. His overall assessment of Raff's standing and abilities as a symphonist, his flaws and his strengths, is very even handed and objective, backed up by extensive sources which are both historical and contemporary. I must say that, if the Raff pages are typical (and why wouldn't they be?), this book should prove to be a seminal and ground-breaking work. I'll admit to being slightly disappointed that Chris has chosen not only to exclude "programme" symphonies, but also the symphonies written by Austrian and Swiss composers. He explains in his Introduction that time and space dictated this decision, which is fair enough, but it does seem a shame, given the otherwise thorough scope of the work and what I am sure will prove to be his clear sighted assessments of the worth of so many unsung symphonies. On the evidence so far though, and despite the high price, thoroughly recommended.

[Mark Thomas]

Clearly one of the problems which us UC-denizens are going to have reading this book is finding all the time to plough through the playlists which will inevitably result. I have just been reading the descriptions of Spohr's ten symphonies and the, generally very enthusiastic, assessment of Kalliwoda's corpus, all the while thinking to myself "It's ages since I played this, I must give it another listen".

[sdtom]

Perhaps there could be a book written about the Swiss and Austrian composers which could include a lengthy section on the program material from German, Swiss, and Austrian composers?
Tom

[Alan Howe]

The issue, Tom, is twofold:

1. There needs to be an extension of the remit of the book to encompass the whole of the 19th century Austro-German symphonic tradition. My terminus ad quem would be 1896, i.e. Bruckner 9, which would also permit the inclusion of, say, Rott and early Mahler (symphonies 1-3).
2. There needs to be an examination of the differing directions which Beethoven's successors took from the mid-1820s - i.e. both the classical direction, which Fifield concentrates on, and the progressive one, which develops via Liszt (Faust Symphony), etc. Both conservatives and progressives saw themselves as Beethoven's successors, but in different ways - which is unsurprising as Beethoven embodies both classical and non-classical trends.

I'd therefore like to see an excursus which examines the Beethoven/Schubert-Rufinatscha-Bruckner connection as well as Liszt's achievements as, for example, you can't explain Raff (especially symphonies 3,5,7 and 8-11) without it. You'll notice that Fifield excludes half of Raff's symphonies, which is a pity as much of his best symphonic music is contained in 3 and 5, in particular. It would also require at least some mention of Berlioz and Wagner as seminal influences on the progressives. If 1896 is the terminus ad quem, Draeseke's great 3rd Symphony could also be examined - which would be fascinating as the author (rightly) recognises Draeseke's stature.

In sum, my perspective is that the Austro-German Symphony post-Beethoven is a much richer and more varied phenomenon than is presented in this book. Of course, this is based on the notion that the Symphony should be defined less narrowly than Fifield allows. If this wider definition is accepted, then 1876 (the year of Brahms 1) becomes less important.

Of course, this is almost certainly being very unfair to the author. What he has written is essentially a history of the German Symphony, as classically defined, in the post-Beethoven period. In this he has succeeded triumphantly. 
   

[sdtom]

Thank you for your explanation. I'm looking forward to being able to read it soon.
Tom

[giles.enders]

Christopher Fifield will be giving a talk about his new book on Tuesday 9th June at 11am at Fairfield Hall, Croydon, as part of a series of talks arranged by The London Mozart Players.

[Alan Howe]

That'd be well worth attending. I understand from the London Mozart Players that the talk is to take place in the Maple Room at Fairfield Halls, Croydon and that the timing is 10:30 arrival for coffee with the talk starting at 11 o'clock. There is no charge for entry - just a donation suggested to cover the cost of refreshments.

[Mark Thomas]

Ah, a shame that I can't go.

[sdtom]

sorry, but your requested interlibrary loan item from MnLINK is not available for lending at this time and the request has been canceled. Possible reasons for unfilled requests are:

All copies of this title are currently in use at other libraries.

The item is non-circulating and not available for lending to other libraries.

The item is too new or popular to lend out to other libraries.

Please contact your local Hennepin County Library if you have any questions about your interlibrary loan requests.

the response I got back after a few weeks
Tom

[eschiss1]

most books less than a year old (or perhaps even just acquired in the last year...) cannot be interlibrary loaned, in my experience. (Not out-of-area, and perhaps not within-system for a multi-library system like the one I'm in, e.g., either.) I, anyway, am not surprised!!

Try again in 2016. That's what I'm doing!

"The item is too new or popular to lend out to other libraries."--
seems like I'm not far off the mark.

(Also, it's considered/categorized as a capital-R Reference, Non-Circulating book by some libraries; those won't loan either, as you see.)

[sdtom]

The University of Minnesota, very close, has the book.
Tom

[eschiss1]

if they are already willing to circulate it, good. (I don't think U Minn has an interloan arrangement with my public library, alas, though some libraries from as nearby as Cornell U. (<1 mile) and as far away as Dallas Public Library and a few in California do - emphasis on some...)

[Richard Moss]

Chris (if you're watching) and prompted by Herbert Pauls' current thread about unauthorised copying:

I went to Google to try and find something out about Josef Netzer (I've just received the CD of his symphonies 1 & 4 and found all the notes in German, which I cannot read).  Anyway, Google books brought up a byline on him in Chris's book but when I looked at the Google link, I was gob-smacked by just how much of the text of the book has been copied in to Google books.

I don't have any knowledge of Chris' book to know how much has been copied (i.e. scanned) but as I'd be very surprised if this (new) book is public domain property yet, I hope all necessary permissions were sought and obtained!

Cheers

Richard

[Ilja]

Not a matter of illegal copying - many publishers have agreements for Google to place a sizeable portion of the text online for people to read. The reasoning being that academic institutions will usually purchase these books anyway, either in physical form or as part of digital distribution agreements - and that giving them an extended preview is going to make the contents wider known. I.e., as a marketing tool. As books are nowadays 'digitally born', it's simply a question of uploading a PDF or ePub file.

[Double-A]

I'll admit to being slightly disappointed that Chris has chosen not only to exclude "programme" symphonies, but also the symphonies written by Austrian and Swiss composers.

There is one Swiss composer on the list:  Schnyder von Wartensee (who BTW used his second first name Xaver, i.e. he ought to be listed as Xaver or Franz Xaver, but not as Franz).  Being Swiss myself I'd have left him out of the book if it were my book.  I used to own a recording of Symphony No. 3 (which Schnyder himself called "military", a reference to Haydn) and in my remembrance from a number of listenings it is more than a little conventional:  The rather impressive adagio introduction makes a promise which is never afterwards kept (no. 2 IMO is more impressive, but probably still not material for a book like this).  If memory serves the next Swiss composer who could have a symphony worth mentioning is probably post Brahms.  Theodor Fröhlich has a fragment in A major (3 movements), written in the 1820s, whose scherzo I remember playing in the student orchestra, but I don't think it was ever performed in the 19th century (if it was it would have been in Aarau, in the 19th century a provincial backwater)  If it wasn't performed it couldn't really be part of any history.

Of course there is Raff who at least has a Swiss connection.

A more important omission in the book is Emilie Mayer, she really would have deserved to be mentioned.