Rubinstein Chamber Music

[eschiss1]

Re the Metronome CD set of Rubinstein trios, it's now listed at MDT under pre-releases (forthcoming recordings?) :

http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//METCD1081.htm

G major for trio 2 seems a typo to me, if I remember the score, but that happens.
Eric

[john_boyer]

Re the Metronome CD set of Rubinstein trios, it's now listed at MDT under pre-releases (forthcoming recordings?) :

http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//METCD1081.htm

G major for trio 2 seems a typo to me, if I remember the score, but that happens.
Eric

The listing does not bode well.  It's billed as a two-disc set.  It shows trios 1-3 on the first disc, 4 & 5 on the second.  The problem is that in my recordings trios 1-3 are each more than 30 minutes long, and that's without observing repeats in the finale of 2 or the slow movement of 1.  So the first three trios should total about 95 minutes, which is approximately 15 minutes longer than a CD can hold.  It would be difficult to trim 5 minutes or more from each trio without breakneck rushing or large scale cuts.

Either that, or the info is inaccurate and the 3rd trio has been split between discs one and two, a solution which I've always disliked. 

We'll see!

[eschiss1]

Unfortunately, Metronome's website does not seem to be of help here. May have to wait until it comes out... (jpc doesn't carry Metronome apparently, either ?!?.)
Eric

[john_boyer]

Well, the Edlian Trio recording of Rubinstein's five piano trios is here.  It's billed as "The Complete Piano Trios - World Premiere Recording", but it should be re-titled, "Most of Rubinstein's Five Trios - World Premiere Recording of the Bleeding Chunks". 

The trios are savagely cut to fit them on to two discs.  Most of the cuts are in the codas of the first and last movements of each trio, sometimes a few bars, sometimes pages of material.  Remember the end of the 4th Concerto, where there is that long build up to the final restatement of the main theme?  Well, imagine that build up, but then immediately cutting to the final bars, skipping the big restatement.  That's basically what they do to each opening and closing movement.  The composer's carefully planned codas (which, unlike his developments, he could manage effectively) are destroyed.  "Okay, we've played enough!  Cut to the final cadence!"

Happily, complete performances of trios 1 through 3 are available, but for the last two, we're stuck with this. 

Really, it's a crime. 

[mbhaub]

But it's a start. There's a lot of music that for a long time we only knew in cut versions. Rachmaninoff 2nd, Tchaikovsky Manfred, Raff 3rd, Gliere 3rd, Amy Beach Symphony to name a few. Maybe the recordings will inspire another outfit to make a truly complete recording.

[Alan Howe]

Heretical thought to self: perhaps Rubinstein's piano trios are best heard cut?

[Mark Thomas]

Ouch!

[JimL]

I get the idea that in this case there was some terribly effective material excised.  John seems really worked up over it.

[eschiss1]

But it's a start. There's a lot of music that for a long time we only knew in cut versions. Rachmaninoff 2nd, Tchaikovsky Manfred, Raff 3rd, Gliere 3rd, Amy Beach Symphony to name a few. Maybe the recordings will inspire another outfit to make a truly complete recording.

There is, too, a huge difference between a well-done, carefully-planned, composer-sanctioned cut (Liszt, Alan Walker wrote as I recall, was very good at placing cuts so that the remaining pieces were still effective music!) and an arbitrary mess.
Eric (who is also, by the way, waiting for commercial recordings of the string quintet in F, piano quartet in C - or is that recorded? missed it...- and string sextet in D.)

[Peter1953]

The trios are savagely cut to fit them on to two discs.

Poor Anton. His Piano Trio's savagely cut. What would he think of what musicians in later centuries did with his music? Perhaps he's just very happy to know that he isn't forgotten at all, and that he has enthusiastic advocates, even in a small country like the Netherlands...
Never mind, let's judge for ourselves and order the double CD. I'm very eager to hear (the major parts of) the 4th and 5th Piano Trio.

[Jonathan]

Interestingly, I was in an Oxfam shop in York today where they had a copy of the Cello Sonatas disc on the Russian Disc label.  It's still there, if anyone wants to go and buy it - it's hidden behind Wagner's Ring (I had to go home and check if I'd already got it, which it turns out, I had).

[Peter1953]

Whatever cruelty is done by the Edlian Piano Trio, I thoroughly enjoyed listening to the Piano Trios 4 and 5. Especially 5 is rather complex and full of surprising changes of mood. Sometimes I get the idea that the violinist is playing a bit out of tune.
Because I have never heard the 4 and 5, I cannot compare it with how it should be if every written note was played. Now that I don't know, I don't miss anything... And therefore I dare to say that the £19 (MDT) is good value for money; CD1 (Trios 1, 2 & 3) lasts 79:55 and CD2 (Trios 4 & 5) 78:41.

[khorovod]

They obviously crammed as much into each disc as they could and I guess that's the reason for the savage cuts. I would prefer to pay for 3 cds and have the music in full. What a shame. Maybe Naxos will turn their attention to this music and give us a complete set at some time.

[Mark Thomas]

I rather doubt that the Edlian Trio are the guilty party here. It smacks much more of an editing/production decision.

[khorovod]

Oh yes, with my vague "they" I didn't mean the artists made the decision. I guess the label/marketing people would maybe have judged what is the best way to sell these cds and whether curious buyers would pay for three cds or more likely for two, since Rubinstein is not so well known these days. Still, whatever the reason behind the product, it is a shame.