Anton Rubinstein - Symphony No 5

[chill319]

I may have overstated the impact of Rubinstein's first three symphonies on his fellow Russians. This hardly constitutes research, but I just bumped into some liner notes with this sentence: "[Rimsky-Korsakov's] First Symphony was heralded by César Cui as the first by a Russian composer." If accurate, Cui for one was unaware of Rubinstein's three only a dozen (or so) years after their appearance.

[JimL]

Cui, and the rest of the Mighty Five were very well aware of Rubinstein's symphonies.  They simply didn't consider him a 'Russian' composer.  He was born in disputed territory (which changed hands often; currently it is in the Republic of Moldova), his schooling was German, and he was a converted Jew.  He himself famously lamented "Russians call me German, Germans call me Russian, Jews call me a Christian, Christians a Jew. Pianists call me a composer, composers call me a pianist. The classicists think me a futurist, and the futurists call me a reactionary. My conclusion is that I am neither fish nor fowl – a pitiful individual!"

[Peter1953]

And that pitiful creature gave me many, many hours, no, days of listening pleasure like no other unsung composer ever did.

[FBerwald]

And that pitiful creature gave me many, many hours, no, days of listening pleasure like no other unsung composer ever did.

Hear hear

[eschiss1]

I seem to recall Robert Volkmann's 2nd symphony was a strong influence on one of Tchaikovsky's early symphonies, though- the influences weren't all Russian (well, ok, of course; Tchaik hated Brahms but was of course open enough to the European mainstream otherwise...) However, I may be misremembering and the influence may have gone in the opposite direction...
Eric

[Amphissa]

 
Well, let's see ....

Memorable, enjoyable works by Cui _____
Memorable, enjoyable works by Rubinstein _____

Composers condemned by Cui
Rubinstein, Rachmaninoff, and Tchaikovsky

Rimsky-Korsakov did not reciprocate the esteem of Cui. He openly disparaged Cui's orchestral talent.

So, from my angle, to be criticized by Cui is praise indeed!

[eschiss1]

Well, let's see ....

Memorable, enjoyable works by Cui _____
Memorable, enjoyable works by Rubinstein _____

Composers condemned by Cui
Rubinstein, Rachmaninoff, and Tchaikovsky

Rimsky-Korsakov did not reciprocate the esteem of Cui. He openly disparaged Cui's orchestral talent.

So, from my angle, to be criticized by Cui is praise indeed!

Memorable, enjoyable works by Cui- from the looks of their scores, his string quartets; from the sound of them, his orchestral suites and piano works.
Memorable, enjoyable works by Rubinstein - many of them. Just not as much so as Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninoff (and he might have criticized Medtner I suppose had they bumped into each other, but no matter conjecturing.)

[chill319]

Thanks for the interesting quote, JimL. Here's another interesting one back atcha, from Yastrebstev's "Reminiscences of Rimsky-Korsakov," describing a concert given by Anton Rubinstein on 1886-02-15 (old style?): "The program, devoted entirely to Russian composers, opened with eleven études by Chopin (op. 10 and 25) ..."

[Mark Thomas]

Well, strictly speaking, at the time Poland was indeed part of the Russian Empire.

[JimL]

That was why Chopin had to leave Poland, and could never return.  When Russia annexed Poland, Chopin was implicated in the Resistance (in thought and word, if not deed).  Had he gone back to Poland in his lifetime, he would have been arrested and maybe imprisoned or executed.  At minimum he would have been sent back into exile.  And of course, the Russians, having already claimed Poland as their own, would have claimed him as well.

[DennisS]

I was intrigued by comments made about Rubinstein's 5th symphony. I listened to sound bites of the symphony and was immediately attracted to the second movement. I consequently ordered the cd, which I received this morning. This afternoon I played the cd and have to say that I very much enjoyed the symphony overall and in particular the second movement. I can well appreciate why one member played this movement over and over! It's such a fun movement, good humoured and joyous. Indeed the whole symphony, as described on Amazon is that is it perhaps the most joyous of all Rubinstein's works. For me the whole symphony works. The third movement had me thinking of Dvorak's New World symphony for a few moments, with its brass opening, had visions of Hovis bread for a while - hope that doesn't sound too silly but that was the effect the first minute or so of the 3rd movement had on me!!! I don't know any of the other symphonies but suspect they are far more serious and therefore a lot less fun to listen too. I plan to look into the other symphonies though in due course. I note that Demon is also mentioned in this thread. Checking my cds, I came across "Exotic music from the Opera" and one of the tracks is "Ballet music from the Demon". Listening to it a couple of times, I liked the piece (approx. 9 mins in length) and found it quite melodious - not great music but certainly a very enjoyable listen.
Cheers
Dennis

[Pengelli]

Have to say. Judging by the amount of posts on this thread,whatever the ultimate value of Anton Rubinstein's music,he certainly gets an online debate going!

[mbhaub]

People can say what they want about Rubinstein. They can laugh at him, like Prokofieff and his generation did, they can criticize him mercilessly, they can berate his music all they want. But Rubinstein had one thing too many lesser composers didn't: dignity. There is a seriousness of intent and dedication of his life to music that intrigues me and causes me to respect him despite the failings of the music. And as long as there are people learning to play piano seriously, his name and music will always hold a place in the music world. I've tried to learn to play some of his early works, but they're beyond me, except for Op. 3 (Melody in F). While most modern pianists spend careers promoting Liszt, Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin, Rachmaninoff and others, it's gratifying to know that Joseph Banowetz is so dedicated to bringing us Rubinstein's music.

[JimL]

I believe there's a fellow named Howard who's doing a little work in that area, too.

[khorovod]

People can say what they want about Rubinstein. They can laugh at him, like Prokofieff and his generation did, they can criticize him mercilessly, they can berate his music all they want. But Rubinstein had one thing too many lesser composers didn't: dignity. There is a seriousness of intent and dedication of his life to music that intrigues me and causes me to respect him despite the failings of the music. And as long as there are people learning to play piano seriously, his name and music will always hold a place in the music world. I've tried to learn to play some of his early works, but they're beyond me, except for Op. 3 (Melody in F). While most modern pianists spend careers promoting Liszt, Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin, Rachmaninoff and others, it's gratifying to know that Joseph Banowetz is so dedicated to bringing us Rubinstein's music.

I agree that Rubinstein the man is deserving of respect for his integrity and his achievements but that isn't a reason per se for me to listen to his music or to revise my opinions of it. Some of it I like but other pieces such as his Dramatic symphony will remain overblown and clumsily written to my mind however great a guy he was personally.  The two things are separate in the same way Wagner's music and his appalling personality are and should be.