Anton Rubinstein - Symphony No 5

[john_boyer]

The overt Russian quality of the work is a reflection of Rubinstein's change of heart regarding nationalist music.  Several works from that period (1880 and the years preceding) reflect this strong nationalist flavor, the 2nd Cello Concerto and the Caprice Russe being prime examples.

I think you mean succeeding, John. 

No, I meant preceding .  The works I mentioned, the 2nd Cello Concerto (1874) and the Caprice Russe (1878), as well as works like the String Quartet #8 (1871), of which Tchaikovsky said, "[a] Russian melancholy element  goes through the entire work...", were the high-water marks of Rubinstein's flirtation with nationalism, ending with his opera The Merchant Kalashnikov (1879) and the 5th Symphony (1880).

In the remaining 14 years of his life, he would write only 14 more opuses.  In these works, Russian elements make only occasional appearances, as in the finale of the 6th Symphony (1886).   For the most part, though, these late works -- Moses, the Konzertstuck (both 1889), the Acrostic #2 and Ten German Songs ( both 1890), Souvenir de Dresde (1894) -- these late works follow classical models.

[chill319]

Whatever one's opinion of the music's merits, I think we can all agree that the first three (major-key) Rubinstein symphonies were of enormous importance for Russian composers when they premiered. Glinka had tried to write a symphony and gotten bogged down, as Balakirev later would. Rubinstein showed the world in the early 1850s that Russians could play in the major leagues. That his sonata forms have sequences of ideas more often than compelling developments of them is not all that surprising. A client culture is a client culture, and at the beginning especially slopes can seem steeper.

[Alan Howe]

Oh yes, I'm sure Rubinstein was enormously important. But his symphonies, sub specie aeternitatis, are not really all that good, in my view.

[Peter1953]

A most wonderful symphony, full of catchy, memorable themes, and a very clever balance of moods between the four movements. Take the sparkling 2nd movement, full of joy, followed by the utterly beautiful 3rd movement, with its serene opening of wind instruments. To my ears not for one second boring, on the contrary.
Rubinstein's Fifth is in my opinion a very great Russian symphony. No, not at the same level as Tchaikovsky. But then, Tchaikovsky wrote at least five truly monumental symphonic masterpieces; he had IMHO hardly any contemporary competitors.

[Alan Howe]

Rubinstein was an undeniably important figure in Russian musical life - but definitely not a great symphonist. The attractive passages in his symphonies are mostly outweighed by lack of organisation and organic development. Don't get me wrong: I have enjoyed listening to them all at some point. But to mention them in the same breath as Tchaikovsky makes no sense - for me at any rate!

[kansasbrandt]

For me, they're ranked in this order of enjoyment:

1) 6th
2) 1st
3) 3rd
4) 2nd (the 4 movement version preferably)
5) 4th
6) 5th

Of the latter two, I can recall not a single theme; the preceeding four on the other hand contain more memorable material.  I, too, had the old LP's of the 6th and the "Ocean".  The 6th was with Beisel (sp?) conducting and the "Ocean" was an old USSR Melodya LP with Fuat Mansurov at the helm (pardon the weak pun!).

[eschiss1]

6: Heribert Beissel, Hamburg Symphony Orchestra (re?issued on Turnabout, 1973)
2: indeed Fuat Mansurov, Gosudarstvennyi simfonicheskii orkestr Ministerstva kulʹtury SSSR. (Melodiya, around 1982?)
Eric

[Mark Thomas]

I listened today to the Fifth. My first impressions were positive, the material from which he builds the first movement (indeed all the movements to be fair) is arresting and has a lot of vitality. Not particularly Russian IMHO, but I wouldn't hold that against him. About halfway through the first movement I realised that it is basically just a succession of episodes, there isn't really any true symphonic development. It's attractive, sometimes very virile, music but in the end it has energy but lacks momentum because it doesn't go anywhere, except back where we've already been. The finale suffers from the same problem. Essentially, the music is pointless. The Scherzo and the slow movement are both very attractive and much more successful because they are more modest in ambition. Overall, I thought better of it than I remembered, but it isn't a great symphony.

Don't get me wrong, Rubinstein's music, including the symphonies, has given me a lot of pleasure over the years and I'm an enthusiast, but what I like about his music is the melody, the colour with which  invests individual episodes, the poetry and the sheer raw energy. It appeals to the heart, not the intellect.

[JimL]

Nice to hear from you again Brandt!  Been a while.  How do you like the Forum's new avatar?

[Amphissa]

 
Although I appreciate the importance of Rubinstein to the development of Russian music, the 5th symphony just doesn't do much for me. To me, the inner movements lack the character and strength to carry me along. My attention wanders.

That said, there are other symphonies I like a lot less, and maybe it would benefit from a better recording than the one I have. I wonder if some conductor and orchestra could come along and breathe real passion and life into the 5th.

Those of you who like this symphony -- do you have a recording to recommend?

[John H White]

I reckon that No 5 is Rubinstein's best symphony. Whenever I want to hear some Ruinstein, I invariably  get out the Marco Polo CD of that work. It must still be selling alright as Marco Polo have not yet got round to transferring it to their cheapo Naxos label, unlike some of his other symphonies.

[Mark Thomas]

..or maybe they still have unsold stocks of the Marco Polo originals that they need to shift first?   

That was certainly their policy a few years ago for deciding when to reissue on Naxos.

[kansasbrandt]

Nice to hear from you again Brandt!  Been a while.  How do you like the Forum's new avatar?

Thank you, Jim!  I like it just fine....  If I may, I'd like to make a small adjustment to my previous ranking by moving the 5th up one spot and putting the 4th at the very bottom.  Reason being, I'd forgotten how blessed long the "Dramatic" is.  Nearly a full hour of material that really isn't that captivating.  As for the 5th, when all is said and done, I actually can recall the clarinet theme now after a hearing of it last night.  Today, I put on #4 - can't recall a single theme.

[Alan Howe]

And yet, by comparison, I can recall a lot of Raff 7 - reckoned by some to be his weakest symphony. Actually, for me there is no comparison...

[Ilja]

For me, the problem with Rubinstein is his attitude. Yes, there is a lot of creativity and energy there, but he simply doesn't seem much interested in what to do with it. All this production, but so little apparent effort dedicating to fine-tuning. Compare it to Saint-Saëns, where all the ideas get beaten into form in a way that makes them memorable. Rubinstein's ideas are certainly no worse than S-S's, but they're crippled by a lack of focus.