Gottfried Huppertz

[Ilja]

Bravissimo, Alan :-)
Apropos Metropolis: conductor Frank Strobel tells in an interview that "Huppert's music is note by note an exact specification what happens in the picture"; in other words "descriptive"- and later on that "the sound tells what happens on the image". Fortunately, the score of "Metropolis" does not degenerate into Mickeymousing, but in too many scene it's, in my opinion not "descriptive" at all but just abstractly bombastic and too dramatic.

Allow me to heartily disagree with this. Although I do enjoy listening to film music sans visuals, you simply cannot measure it as such. There is a reason for Huppertz' excesses - Metropolis is meant to be hyperbolic, to show a larger-than-life image of a possible future. In that sense, the music is perfectly fitting.

[Alan Howe]

Fitting, but unlistenable, then? Especially when divorced from the visual image...

[eschiss1]

I wouldn't be quick to put a "never" there; I've heard film music suites which, randomly shuffled into in my iPod (at the time) collection, I had no idea were incidental music (they were fairly clearly suites, but "film music" didn't shout out loud from them. The prelude, especially (but not only), to Benjamin Frankel's lovely score to "Night of the Iguana" (almost completely inaudible in the film, unfortunately) seems a good example. (Recorded on cpo.)

[Alan Howe]

I was referring to the Huppertz as unlistenable...

[adriano]

Sorry about my yesterday's judgement, Ilja, but that is just what I felt watching the DVD.
In any case, my ears were tired, not my eyes :-)
I never wrote the music would not fit! I just criticised the style.
Frankly, to show a "larger-than-life image of the future" I would use music of a bit more transcendental kind :-)

[Ilja]

But you need to remember that you're writing this with films like 2001: A Space Odyssey, Star Wars, Star Trek and whatever science fiction film in mind; science fiction is a genre that has developed a fairly specific musical style and has exercised a heavy influence on popular culture. Lang and Huppertz were pioneering, and went in a very different direction. And "unlistenable"? I wouldn't want to sit through the entire two and a half hours, but I think there are elements that are very successful. The title sequence music, for example (the first minute and a half) works very well with and without the image: visceral, exciting and very recognizable. But we can always agree to disagree, I guess.

[Alan Howe]

I wouldn't want to sit through the entire two and a half hours, but I think there are elements that are very successful.

That's precisely the point. The only way this music can be listened to as music is if it is arranged.

[soundwave106]

"Unlistenable" is in the eye of the beholder. I personally enjoy complete film scores for what they are, and there is a community of film score listeners around that is much the same way.

At the same time, I would agree that most *complete* film scores will contain a lot of moments that more "throw-away", because they are more designed for what is going on the screen. (The same actually applies for other genres like ballet.)

For the concert hall, this is why a lot of composers who worked in film, made suites of film scores: hours of music designed for moving images, without the moving images, would not work with a lot of people. As far as recordings go though I'm personally glad to have "complete" versions.

I haven't listened to the Huppertz score in a while; from what I recall, it was pleasant enough, but I would not put Huppertz's score at the level of the top Golden Age Hollywood scores. At the same time, it's also a relatively rare example of a period silent era original orchestral film score, one that's probably more known than others out there due to the film it is attached to.

I do wonder if there are some silent film scores out there that are relatively better, but unrecorded (due to being attached to a lesser known silent film)... or perhaps some good scores that got lost completely like so much of silent film history has been. A few of my favorite film scores in more modern times were attached to mediocre to dud movies after all...

[Alan Howe]

"Unlistenable" is in the eye of the beholder.

Or the ear, maybe? Anyway, I'll wager that the vast majority of listeners wouldn't choose to sit through the whole of Huppertz's score - which was my point. Of course, there may well be complete film scores that are worth listening to - but on the whole the fact that 'suites' are often made for concert-hall consumption rather confirms my argument.

[adriano]

Silent films with great music scores:
"Cabiria", for sure! From which Pizzetti extracted "Sinfonia del Fuoco". There was a live performance in Torino in 2003. A DVD with probably the original music was once offered for sale, but disappeared from the marked within short time, meaning that I still miss it. I have only a version with new music by Roland Zag and Jiri Berdych (taped from Bavarian TV).
I have never seen a version of Pierre Malodon's film "Salammbô", coupled with the gorgeous music by Florent Schmitt. This project seems still to be realized.
I once studied the complete scores of Henri Rabaud's "Joueur d'échecs" and "Le Miracle des Loups". But I renounced to even extract suites from these, since the music is not really apt for separate hearings. "Joueur" (by the great Raymond Bernard, who also made "Les Misérables" with Honegger's music) and "Miracle" are both available in a 3DVD box, together with Bernard's "Tarakanova". All great films! Besides most avilable commercial issues, I have a collection of some over 100 more silent films, taken from TV or private collections).

[der79sebas]

We had a performance of the Metropolis movie with live orchestra here in Vienna. I did not know the film nor the music and was overwhelmed. I rushed to buy the Capriccio CD (1 h "complete" film music) - and listened to it only twice. In my opinion the music (which has many of the problematic qualities Adriano mentions, most prominent the repetitions) is really intended and appropriate to make immediate, great effect at the first listening during live performance in combination with the film. But repeated listenings (esp. on CD) lead to ultimate disappointment. In this way it is somehow similar to Wagner's rather simply tinkered Parsifal, where Wagner also assumed that the typical listener will only hear it once in his life in Bayreuth. This is also a work which collapses to nothing when you hear it more often (although not after the third time).

[giles.enders]

For anyone who has the slightest doubt about this film music or the film Metropolis, now is your chance to view it at London's Royal Festival Hall.  The original Huppertz score will be played by London's best symphony orchestra, none other than The Philharmonia. Metropolis is considered by most critics as one of the most profound and greatest films of the 20th c. It can be seen on Thursday June 10th at 7.30

[Alan Howe]

London's best symphony orchestra, none other than The Philharmonia

They're a fine band, no doubt, but the LSO would certainly contest that claim...

[Alan Howe]

By the way, I suggest that members read Adriano's posts earlier in this thread as he had much to say about the quality of Huppertz's music for Metropolis.

In any case, for those simply curious, you can hear the score for yourself here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQf1086SJW4

Personally, I couldn't tolerate this bombastic aural assault for very long...
...but that's just my opinion.

[TerraEpon]

By the way, I suggest that members read Adriano's posts earlier in this thread as he had much to say about the quality of Huppertz's music for Metropolis.

But noone else's opinions on the matter are valid?