Surplus CDs

[Gareth Vaughan]

Absolutely right, matesic. And, as I said before, even if it were illegal how would anybody know? In any case you could not enforce such a law and governments should not pass laws that cannot be enforced: it brings the legislature into disrepute.

[Christopher]

I've just advertised at a local music conservatory for a student who would be prepared to rip my 1300 CDs for me as I just do not have the time.  I specified that they will need to be highly familiar with itunes and must meet the way I like to label things (which is very particular!). And I have said that they are welcome to keep copies of the tracks for themselves if they wish.  Anyway I have had 18 "applications" so far! I might then ask said local conservatory if they would be interested in having the 1300 CDs for their library. I do also want that space back!

[matesic]

The main inconvenience for me is that I can't settle down for a nap!

[eschiss1]

afaik, you are not allowed to make a copy of a recording before selling in the US. Purchasing gives you some rights but not others.

[Gareth Vaughan]

How do you enforce that law? If I buy a CD, copy it to a hard drive or a cloud, then sell it on secondhand, who is to know that I copied its content? It would be virtually impossible to prove an offence had been committed - which makes an ass of the law.

[eschiss1]

Not disagreeing. Probably enforced on people who admit to it.

[Gareth Vaughan]

Why would anyone admit to it?

[matesic]

Sorry Eric, I don't buy it (!) - say you bought a new CD, copied it legitimately and then how ever many years later have to apologise: "I can't sell you that CD because I once made a copy" which might well have gone down with a hard drive? Surely no government would make a law that daft? No enforcement agency would think it worthwhile enforcing, even if the perpetrator tuned up at the police station to confess!

[Mark Thomas]

I imagine that in most jurisdictions it's an issue covered by civil law(i.e. copyright holder bringing a case for copy infringement), rather than criminal (i.e. police-enforced) law. In any event, we've spent enough time on this side issue. Can we move on, please? Any more suggestions for Ilja on finding a safe home for his CD collection?

[matesic]

I don't think it's a side issue at all! If Eric is right Ilya wouldn't be able to sell his CD collection in the US.

[Gareth Vaughan]

Well, matesic, I know we are in agreement on this issue, but Mark is right to draw it to close now because, if I understand correctly, Ilja is not wanting to sell his CDs anyway, but to donate them to an institution where they will be used and enjoyed, so the topic is what is the best place to receive Ilja's generous gift. I'm thinking that the Fleisher Collection at the Free Library of Philadelphia might be interested.

[Mark Thomas]

Thanks Gareth. Point taken, Matesic, but it would be good to get something definitive about the legal situation in various jurisdictions, such as the EU and the US, rather than mere speculation. For instance I came across this, which I believe sets out the very restrictive legal position in the USA. It appears that the only legal digital copying you can do there is making a backup copy of a CD you own. The implication is that if you dispose of the CD, you destroy the digital backup. There is more on the legality of making digital copies in this Wikipedia article, which includes country-specific information.

All that said, it's pretty clear that this in an issue where most authorities turn a blind eye to the practice because it is so widespread and policing is virtually unenforceable.

[matesic]

Good to have got that sorted out, all nice and clear (one last post and I'll shut up). If it's illegal to rip a CD and give it to your friends, isn't it also illegal to give it to an institution?

[Mark Thomas]

That certainly seems to be so, but only if you retain the digital copy. However, I repeat, it's not illegal in itself to sell or give away CDs. It may be that no one is enforcing the rule about destroying the digital copy but, as the son of a police officer, I can only parrot Francis Urquart's famous phrase from the original UK House of Cards "You might very well think that, I couldn't possibly comment".

[TerraEpon]

My original comment was less about getting away with anything or anything being enforced, and more to just consider that it is, in fact, considered piracy. I honestly am boggled why people think it's fine to buy something, copy it, and get rid of it (even if it's a donation and not being sold) buy just downloading a copy without buying it isn't ok. Either way, the big issue is one copy has been sold but yet two (or more) people have the music from that one sale.