The Greatest Unsung American Symphony?

[petershott@btinternet.com]

Well, if in ancient days before there were unsung composers to pursue, our distant ancestors happily swung through trees in some remote region of Africa and then discovered the advantages of an upright posture, and started wandering across the plains in the direction of what became Europe, then surely, Delicious Manager, both you and I are immigrants?

Let's help our esteemed moderator keep his hair. Surely the thread is seeking something fairly clear-cut, viz composers who were born in America (or Canada or Mexico) rather than those who arrived in their precocious teens or genteel middle-age? (So Korngold, Schoenberg or even Dvorak [!] are clearly excluded from the category).

Peter

[Delicious Manager]

Well, if in ancient days before there were unsung composers to pursue, our distant ancestors happily swung through trees in some remote region of Africa and then discovered the advantages of an upright posture, and started wandering across the plains in the direction of what became Europe, then surely, Delicious Manager, both you and I are immigrants?

Let's help our esteemed moderator keep his hair. Surely the thread is seeking something fairly clear-cut, viz composers who were born in America (or Canada or Mexico) rather than those who arrived in their precocious teens or genteel middle-age? (So Korngold, Schoenberg or even Dvorak [!] are clearly excluded from the category).

Peter

Very true, of course, I have to admit I was merely being mischievous. Apologies to the moderators for any further challenging of the follicles as a result.

[Alan Howe]

No problem, kind sirs. I see the wig-maker tomorrow...

[Pengelli]

........as I was saying about Roy Harris!

[eschiss1]

........as I was saying about Roy Harris!

still haven't heard as many of his symphonies as I'd like- meaning to hear syms. 8 and 9, but really enjoy syms. 3, 5 and 7, especially 7 in Ormandy's account.

[Pengelli]

In relation to the posts above. Any unsung Native American, ('Red Indians' in less pc times),symphonists out there?

[Pengelli]

If you like Harris's Seventh,his ninth has the same sort of epic feel about it. The eighth is different. It incorporates a piano,a bit like Martinu did,but in a different sort of way. It almost sounds minimalist in places,and like an extended symphonic poem;but it grows on you. I like it. Albany have a superb cd of 8 & 9,and the 'fill up',a short orchestral work in between,is Harris at his most relaxed & playful. His Violin Concerto is fantastic,one of his best and is available on another cd in a very good recording.

[oldman]

I would like to hear the remaining 4 of George Bristow's symphony. I know about  recording of the symphony in F# monir Op. 26 of 1858, but I would like to also hear his  other symphonies

Sinfonia in E flat Major Op. 10 (1848)
Juilien Sinfonia No. 2 in D Minor Op. 24 (1853-54)
Arcadian Symphonie in E minor Op. 50 (1872)
Niagara Symphony Op. 62 (1893)

I believe that the Juilien Symphony was recorded Was recorded on the Karl Krueger Music in America Series ( I seem to recall coming across it as a teenager in the library). Has any seen this recording or heard of any of recordings/broadcasts of any of the others?

[eschiss1]

Sinfonia in E flat Major Op. 10 (1848)
Juilien Sinfonia No. 2 in D Minor Op. 24 (1853-54)
Arcadian Symphonie in E minor Op. 50 (1872)
Niagara Symphony Op. 62 (1893)

This seems to be the case re sym.2. The Arcadian symphony (no.4 according to some sources, no.5 according to others...??) was also recorded, it seems, also in the same series under the direction of Karl Krueger around 1967 (LP MIA 135) (op.49, not 50, seems to have been given on the LP?... ah. op.49 was the cantata the Pioneers, of which the symphony originally formed the 2nd part. that explains it.) The (5th?6th?) Niagara, symphony may also have been recorded - not sure, though.

[Mark Thomas]

The Jullien and the Arcadian Symphonies were most definitely available on LP in very persuasive performances from Royal Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Karl Krueger. I have heard a tape of an execrable amateur performance of No.1 on a tape which was going the rounds  a few years ago, but I don't think it was ever commercially recorded. AFAIK the Niagara has not been recorded.

[Alan Howe]

Piston No.2 would be another candidate as far as i am concerned. A wonderful slow movement with some sublime writing framed by an immensely powerful first movement and a whirlwind finale. Marvellous stuff. (And do get the Tilson Thomas recording with the BostonSO on DG!)

[eschiss1]

I kept letting what I thought Piston's music sounded like overwrite (over-audition?) what performers were actually playing... if that makes any sense at all... thought that he was predictable though enjoyable ... - until I heard some of his late music, first of all the 8th symphony without knowing it was his music at first

(funny how often I gain from tuning into the middle of a piece - what a striking, brooding, what-is-happening-here? piece! who could this possibly be by?... ... wait. Piston? ... pull my other leg, it has bells on...) - then after that, was able to go back to those earlier works with fresher ears. (Still not so much for the 2nd symphony myself but the 4th definitely makes much more of an impression now for example. Likewise the piano quintet whose first movement, the first time I heard it, put me in mind of Faure - the only other 20th century American composer off-hand to remind me of early-20th-century French music of any kind was Creston, in one or two of his orchestral works (Corinthians XIII op.82 of 1963, I think. I only heard part of it, actually, but it made quite an impression... ... anyway.)

The string sextet, which I finally heard on a private tape and then on Naxos after wondering for some time from the score what this might sound like, was a bit of a disappointment compared to the late symphonies and 5th string quartet- just borrowed the new Naxos odd-numbered string quartets recording from the local public library (comparatively we have a pretty good one here- I'm biased and do volunteer there, a caveat ) ... ... in any case, was glad, not unusually, to have gone back and reconsidered his output. Haven't heard that recording of the 8th in awhile and don't have a clue if I'd hear the same things in it now as I did then - of course, wouldn't be a bad thing if a good modern performance and recording were made...

[Dundonnell]

Also (sorry about the punchy posts on this topic) anyone like Pennsylvania composer Richard Yardumian's (1917-1985) 2nd, by the way (hrm, apparently his first symphony was recorded too and by Ormandy- haven't heard it though I think... I'm pretty sure I've heard both his violin concerto and his second symphony...)?
Have heard part of Arnold Rosner's 5th symphony but was quite impressed by it.

I have Yardumian's 1st Symphony on LP and will upload it soon

[Amphissa]

There are some Native American composers, but to my knowledge, none has yet published a symphony. Jerod Impichchaachaaha' Tate has composed quite a few works, including a ballet score. Perhaps the best known is Louis W. Ballard, who won many awards and had many of his works performed during his lifetime (1931-2007). His "Incident at Wounded Knee" was a four-movement work that received a lot of attention. But I don't really think anything written by Native American composers qualifies as a symphony by any stretch.

I don't really do well with these "greatest" lists, because I enjoy different works for different reasons at different times. To say one is the greatest and another is not, or even that one is better than another, when I like them all, is difficult for me.

Among the symphonies that I don't think have been mentioned yet in this thread, I'd include for consideration John Vincent Symphony in D, Giannini "Roosevelt Symphony," Bernstein 2 "Jeremiah," Kelley 1, Ives 2, Hovhannes 2 "Magic Mountain," and Beach "Gaelic." Maybe some of these have been mentioned. I haven't gone back through this entire thread in awhile. (It started more than a year ago.)

Are any of these "the greatest" of all American symphonies? Well, I'll let others decide. I just know that there are times I want to listen to one of them and I like them just fine when I do.

[eschiss1]

Well, Brent Michael Davids calls his "Gathering of Nations" (ca.1999?) his first symphony- haven't heard it yet.