Rubinstein Piano Concerto 5: and works whose poignancy have GROWN on you

[Steve B]

The first couple of times i heard this, i felt it was somewhat bombastic,(a common opinion on this particular monster); but it has begun to seriously grow on me. yes, there are longueurs; yes there is sequential wrting and Rubinsteinian repetition. But the themes are lovely: in all three movements; and the first movment's slow, romantic theme seems to return at the end of the finale.And, there is that eerie passage in the slow movement. The overall feeling is, to me, similar to that conjured up by the wonderful spellbinding music of Moszkowski: its that stoical, happy-cum-sad(simultaneously) bittersweet feeling(cf. the end of Moszkowski's PC finale), that a lot of these Romantic concerti do so well and with few comparisons outside the genre(Scharwenka number 3 is another poignant, and even more perfect, example).You are left with the feeling that life-somehow-despite what it throws at you- must go on.

And on a side-note, Adrian Ruiz(Genesis LP, reissued on cd) THUNDERS out some of the granitic chords like no-one(except Michael Ponti's, who didnt record this one) business.

So, any similar experiences of works that originally left you unmoved but grew on you in their emotional impact or poigancy?

Steve

[JimL]

I disagree about the cyclic approach in Rubinstein PC 5.  I hear no reference to any theme from the first movement at any point in the finale.  Other than that, I'm right with you there, Steve.  Although I must confess, I liked the score from the get-go.

[mbhaub]

Elgar's 2nd symphony was like that for me. I first encountered it maybe 30 years ago and it went in one ear and out the other. Nothing stuck. It seemed turgid, bloated, empty and frankly dull. Then a long, long time passed and I never once took out the record (Barbirolli no less). Then about 12 years back I was up late one night an tuned in the classical station and heard the most beautiful, poignant music I'd ever heard: it was the 3rd movement. When they announced the work I was stunned. Could that symphony that I had dismissed so readily really have this much beauty? I immediately dug out the old LP and listened. Such marvelous music. Now, there isn't hardly a week go by that I don't listen to it. I've collected over 20 versions to keep it fresh. The closing pages can still bring a tear. There is nothing like sitting by a fire, a good brandy or cognac in hand, lights turned low and listening to Elgar's 2nd.

[Ilja]

For me, the whole revelation that the unsungs could be so worthwhile came during my student days with the Rott symphony. In those days, I used to read with music as a 'backdrop' and although I didn't like the Rott *at all* at first, I just kept being too lazy to change the disc. The work very quickly grew on me.

Of course, since then (twenty years... sigh...) my whole perspective on music, and many of my tastes, have changed fundamentally; but the Rott symphony still holds a special place for that reason alone. More recently, by the way, I had a similar experience with the Urspruch symphony: didn't even like it in the beginning, was hooked after three listenings.

[FBerwald]

Saint-Saens Piano Concerto No. 5 . Ist movement second subject (in the minor key) is recapitulated near the end of the movement in a beautiful muted strings accomp. that is very poignant and lingers...
The Samuel Coleridge-Taylor Clarinet quintet IInd movement main theme is very beautiful and bittersweet.
Raff Symphony no. 3 "Im Walde" Largo-"In der Dammerung" is probably my most fav.

[Revilod]

[quote author=FBerwald link=topic=816.msg10603#msg10603 date=1291970697
Saint-Saens Piano Concerto No. 5 . Ist movement second subject (in the minor key) is recapitulated near the end of the movement in a beautiful muted strings accomp. that is very poignant and lingers...]

Yes.  Saint-Saens was something of a dab hand at codas. The coda of the Fourth Piano Concerto's 1st movement is hardly less poignant.  He wasn't a composer who was capable of profound utterances but, because his melodic ideas are so often genuinely inspired and because he had the imagination and the technique to make the best of them,  he often wrote music which is truly touching and which is, then, unforgettable.   In that sense, Dvorak and Grieg are similar composers I think. Isn't Prokofiev a 20th Century equivalent? Who can ever forget his 1st Violin Concerto?

Still...to get back to the point...I rejected Stenhammar's 1st Symphony for many years because the composer himself rejected it and because it is so strongly influenced by Wagner and Brahms but I've recently returned to it and can't stop playing it.  For poignancy, how about that wonderful string phrase in the 1st movement and the middle section of the 3rd movement?

[Steve B]

Thanks guys; heartfelt responses. Jim, I am not  totally clear re the return of the first movt second subject  or part thereof-towards end of finale, but will re-listen; I am a bit  vague re it and it may be a variant: it was more an intuition, but its either there or it isnt so will check cos want to listen to this rambling but lovely concerto all over again. Perhaps i shall even get to like No.2!As we have said before, what a weirdly uneven composer R. is:
1. Eroica Fantasy-masterpiece throughout
2. Similarly PC 4
3. PC 3, Symphonies-all uneven with moments of glory
I bet the Cello Concerti are growers too- quite subtle.
Forgot THE maddest piano concerto- No 1 with THE CRAZY OTT ending. Its time for another outing of Fardink's recording-wish Ponti had played THAT too.
Also currently growing on me-in a less profound way- Herz's Piano Concerti, especially no.1

Steve

[FBerwald]

The reubinstein Cello concertos certainly Grow on you.

[petershott@btinternet.com]

Fortunately not unsung, but Bax's Tintagel. When I first heard it 30 years ago it struck me as a strange uncomfortable piece. But in years to come I want it in my grave with me, with machine set to 'constant replay'. That fits the bill for 'growing on you'!

Peter

[Alan Howe]

I'm with you on Rubinstein's concertos: I find them all a good listen. So was he more inspired writing for a solo instrument than for the orchestra on its own, I wonder? He was, after all, one of the greatest virtuosi of the age...

[FBerwald]

I'm with you on Rubinstein's concertos: I find them all a good listen. So was he more inspired writing for a solo instrument than for the orchestra on its own, I wonder? He was, after all, one of the greatest virtuosi of the age...

Methinks You might be right.
I'll also take this opportunity to say that his Violin concerto ( no so much as the cello and piano concerti) is quite beautiful.

[Alan Howe]

Yes, the VC is a big, serious and very lovely piece. Quite different, I think, from the PCs.

[Peter1953]

As we have said before, what a weirdly uneven composer R. is

I didn't say that, Steve. How can I ever say something like that of my favourite unsung composer, which Rubinstein still is, after the past years, full of new musical discoveries. 

Composers that have grown on me since the 1970s are Bruckner and Mahler. That has taken me many years. To me their symphonies are the most striking examples.

But a more recent example is Taneyev's Fourth. I have the CD coupling 2 and 4 (Polyansky on Chandos) and it took me many repeated listening before No. 4 has really and definitely grown on me. In the beginning I only liked both inner movements.  I thought the opening Allegro molto and the Finale were too noisy. I had to force myself to listen to the complete symphony over and over again, and that worked. It didn't only result in my appreciation of this great symphony, but eventually made me a real Taneyev fan.

[jerfilm]

The Glazunov Violin Concerto is one of mine.  Especially after I once heard the passionate and lovely performance by Tretnakov and the USSR SO.  I suppose I've played this a hundred times.   Saint Saens 3rd VC is another I return to often.

[Alan Howe]

Today I returned to Jadassohn's two PCs. No.1 in particular struck me as a magnificent piece: brilliant and yet reflective by turns and with some unforgettable themes. I had badly underestimated it...

Can't wait for the symphonies on cpo!