Lyapunov's Rhapsody on Ukrainian Themes

[Steve B]

thomas, let me know what you think of the other stuff on the VoxBox(though don't expect miracles of current-day perfection from Vox east European orchestras!). Interested if you like my hero(Ponti's) style!
Take care. happy listening and keep up the reviews! Steve

[sdtom]

thomas, let me know what you think of the other stuff on the VoxBox(though don't expect miracles of current-day perfection from Vox east European orchestras!). Interested if you like my hero(Ponti's) style!
Take care. happy listening and keep up the reviews! Steve

Will do. Quite familiar with the Vox/Turnabout as I owned quite of few lp's from that time and some Ponti who I enjoyed.
tom

[Rob H]

I collected Ponti recordings as well - as many as I could. He was one of the few actually playing these obscure concertos and, for the most part doing it very well. OK he was heavy on the barn-storming and pretty charmless but you couldn't deny the impact of the pieces when played to the hilt. Of course with each recording I bought I always hoped that the recorded sound would be better and I was always disappointed - they are just so bad.
It is Ponti's swash-buckling approach that I miss with Milne - his recording of the Liapunov Rhapsodie has many good points but the finale is so careful. I found the same with the Naxos Balakirev Concerti with Seifetdinova - poerty but for what are big-boned romantic pieces (especially the finale of the second) very low-key, understated pianism. Where is the Russian fire???
I am going to get the Naxos Liapunov just in case - they are so cheap after all.
Rob

[Steve B]

hammyplay, we may have to agree to disagree here :)but Ponti can be anything but "charmless"; most of the slow movements of the Romantic concerti are played delicately and sensitively(and passionately!). Ok the speeds are spmetimes too fast but this maybe pressure from Vox for timings. The slow movement of the Scriabin PC is delicacy incarnate; and the orchestra actually plays well on that particular recording, the solo instruments interweaving with Ponti's delicate filigaree. Its nice you agree on his passionate barnstorming suiting these pieces

I DO recommend the Dante re-visits of these concerti, cos the orchestras are so much better; is a shame they are so elusive to find now. There seems to be a respectably large weight of opinion now that some of the Hyperion pianists are too sedate in these pieces. But I know we all have different tastes........
Steve

[Pengelli]

I bought the Vox set Of Ponti playing the Scriabin sonata's from reading these kinds of comments. It's like with Glenn Gould's Bach,(going a bit off topic),some people don't like his eccentricities and humming,but other recordings seem a bit tame and predictable afterwards,even if the musianship is superior.

[Pengelli]

musicianship!

[eschiss1]

musicianship!

(?) "Intermission!" (apologies to Sondheim.)

[Steve B]

Pengelli, not sure what you mean by "musicianship"; used usually in terms of interpretative practice(eg. amount of rubato, arpeggiation in Romantic period music; whether to play Bach on piano or not). But that changes so much with academic, ie musical academy, fashion: Reinecke(recorded on a piano roll, but you still get a  clear enough picture)played Schumann with rubato "all over the place". Horovitz and Ponti and Paderewski(who wrote an excellent essay on the two types of rubato, available on the net)all bring these matters to a head. Of course, Ponti was what was considered "behind his time"; his Paderewskian flexibility of tempo(of the outside the barline division type) was more typical of pianism, particuarly in Romantic era pieces, prior to-what?-1930s. But as a player using heavy rubato, upto his last recording in 1997(Rach 3), he is seen as having less/inappropriate "musicianship"(in , I stress, SOME, quarters!:). Not getting at you, Pengelli:) But I think we have to look at how this phrase is historically shaped and determined. Cf. heavy vibrato in string playing; portamento in singing, all much decried now but fashionable and  considered appropriate upto-what?-1930s. Just listen to the swooping-upto-note strings in Elgar conducting his own orchestral music!.
Then, I realise, a lot of it, at least, is personal taste; and whether one likes unfettered emotion, thinks added emotion suits the text; or whether there IS an ur-text. Some of my piano pupils have got fairly good marks for departing(eg in tempo/dynamics) from the text; others, with fashion-conscious, "by the book"(in my opinion) examiners have been undermarked for "inappropriate additions" to the "text". Anyway, I think i have made my point........ BUt I think, if we use words like "musicianship", we should think about what they means to US as INDIVIDUALS. This is just meant to be a stimulus for discussion, not an attack for using a casual word.... Hope, you take it as such, Pengelli!. Steve

[sdtom]

My copy of Romantic Piano Concerto Vol. 5 arrived yesterday in the mail which includes the Ponti recording of the Lyapunov work. In my opinion the Ponti playing is superior to the more conservative approach that Shorena took. Expecting the worst as far as the Westphalian Symphony was concerned I was surprised that they were adequate. The transfer/remastering wasn't the best, however. Overall this is a welcome addition to my collection of material.
Tom

[Steve B]

Great, Tom; its exciting isnt it!?Hope u enjoy other pieces. Let me/us know what you think. Steve

[DennisS]

As a result of this thread, I bought the cd  of Lyapunov's 2 PCs and the Rhapsody. Personally, I too prefer the Rhapsody to the PCS but the whole CD makes for pleasant listening. I also have the Lyapunov symphonies, so I am familiar with his work. I must say though that the Rhapsody is a delightful work, in rondo form, with charming melodies and also a little bit of muscle. I like it a lot.

Cheers
Dennis

[TerraEpon]

So out of curiousity, if price were irrelevant, which disc is better -- the Hyperion or the Naxos? They both have the same three pieces.

[Rob H]

hammyplay, we may have to agree to disagree here :)but Ponti can be anything but "charmless"; most of the slow movements of the Romantic concerti are played delicately and sensitively(and passionately!). Ok the speeds are spmetimes too fast but this maybe pressure from Vox for timings. The slow movement of the Scriabin PC is delicacy incarnate; and the orchestra actually plays well on that particular recording, the solo instruments interweaving with Ponti's delicate filigaree. Its nice you agree on his passionate barnstorming suiting these pieces

Actually listening to them again, maybe with the benefit of age(?) or experience(??). I do find that Ponti can be delicate. The slow movement of the Scharwenka 2 has always impressed me. I think I was coloured more by his ride-em-hard style in faster music. The final movement of the Scharwenka 2 loses a lot of its dance quality compared to Lewenthal who always finds grace even in the fastest sections, Ponti's Eugene Onegin paraphrase (Pabst) suffers greatly compared to the light and elegant touch of Ginsburg, and his Tausig Halka is technically great but very little in the way of piano colour (ok the recording is atrocious but I'm sure its not only that - for example Gunnar Johansen's Friedman recordings are in very bad sound but you can still hear his tone). I think I let these and other isolated examples of Ponti's playing colour all my listening - I did enjoy a lot of his playing and he certainly introduced us to a huge number of unknown pieces.
Rob