Gernsheim Symphonies

[M. Yaskovsky]

I'd like to recommend more Gernsheim: https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/friedrich-gernsheim-violinkonzerte-nr-1-d-dur-op-42-nr-2-f-dur-op-86/hnum/8290276 and this lovely disc: https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/August-Klughardt-1847-1902-Symphonie-Nr-2-d-moll-op-27-Leonore/hnum/2871447

[Revilod]

Sadly, the symphonies did not resonate with me.  If you are interested in owning this set, drop me a line and I'll send it to you.

By coincidence I've been listening to Gernsheim's symphonies a lot recently. On the whole, if you don't like Brahms's symphonies, you won't like Gernsheim's ....though some of the movements ( the tarantella from the second symphony, for instance ) couldn't have been written by Brahms.

Before you sell them, try the finale of the Symphony No 4 again. Its surging second subject may just convert you.

[Finn_McCool]

I appreciate the efforts to get me to give the Gernsheim symphonies one more chance and, indeed I have pulled out the album a couple times over the years to see if my initial impression had changed.  After every listen, I always ended up coming to the same conclusion, that the symphonies were not really my bag.  Nevertheless, as per the last suggestion, I went ahead and gave the fourth movement of the fourth symphony another spin.  And now I can truly say that the opinions expressed here are right on:  the music is conservative and does sound like Brahms wouldn't have composed  it.  Thanks for the encouragement,  however.   I really value the opinions of the members here.  In any event, I was never trying to sell the CD.  I just wanted to get it into the hands of someone who would appreciate it more than I do.  Still looking for any takers.   

[eschiss1]

My suggestion would have been to sample the other recording of it/them (over YouTube), now that there is one, but I hear you.

[Ilja]

I appreciate the efforts to get me to give the Gernsheim symphonies one more chance and, indeed I have pulled out the album a couple times over the years to see if my initial impression had changed.  After every listen, I always ended up coming to the same conclusion, that the symphonies were not really my bag.  Nevertheless, as per the last suggestion, I went ahead and gave the fourth movement of the fourth symphony another spin.  And now I can truly say that the opinions expressed here are right on:  the music is conservative and does sound like Brahms wouldn't have composed  it.  Thanks for the encouragement,  however.   I really value the opinions of the members here.  In any event, I was never trying to sell the CD.  I just wanted to get it into the hands of someone who would appreciate it more than I do.  Still looking for any takers.   

Now, I'm not going to try to "sell" Gernsheim to you; it's not your cup of tea, and that's fine. But I want to argue against seeing Gernsheim as a mere "Brahmsian" epigone - and the same has been said of Fuchs, Herzogenberg, Dietrich, or even Bruch or Draeseke. This is a typical example of a largely common expressive language shared among a circle of befriended/acquainted artists which then is named after its most famous representative. The unfortunate side-effect is that it creates the impression that the rest of the circle consists of mere copycats.

[Alan Howe]

Quite right, Ilja. The way to approach these fine composers is to attempt to judge them on their own merits rather than in comparison with Brahms.

[FBerwald]

There is 1 more Gernsheim symphony yet to be recorded - the early E-flat of 1857. Hope this comes out eventually.

[eschiss1]

Agreed. And both it and the G minor predate his meeting Brahms, at least (I don't know how much of Brahms' music he knew at that point.)

[Ilja]

At least much of the chamber music, I'd say - Brahms was already well-known before the 1st Symphony. Also, I think both knew Dietrich before they did each other, so it's likely he shared his knowledge with Gernsheim.

What is the source situation with the E flat? It isn't on IMSLP.

[FBerwald]

The Manuscript of E-flat symphony seems to be in the Jewish National Library https://www.worldcat.org/title/symphonie-in-es-dur-fur-grosses-orchester-manuscript/oclc/875090436

[Alan Howe]

...composed before his 18th birthday!

[Ilja]

The Manuscript of E-flat symphony seems to be in the Jewish National Library https://www.worldcat.org/title/symphonie-in-es-dur-fur-grosses-orchester-manuscript/oclc/875090436

291 Pages. Ahem.

[Alan Howe]

Sounds rather a lot...

[tpaloj]

It depends. 200-250 ms pages would not be unusual for a full-rounded 40-minute symphony. Some composers write 8-10 measures per page in manuscript, others 3-4. It could contain crossed-out and drafted pages etc. Only way to make a good judgment is to see what the ms looks like. But it does sound interesting – an early, ambitious work like this could either be a wonderful discovery or a complete dud.

[eschiss1]

Hrm. By comparison the holographs of Bruckner 6 and Gernsheim's C minor are about 205 and 230 pp. Interesting. (Louis Glass' first comes out to 382 pp. and 45 minutes.) The fact that some manuscripts from the same library have been made available for recording (eg Toccata's piano Gernsheim and a recent Weinberger recording) suggests the possibility, anyway.