Ries - Violin Concerto E minor, Op. 24 on Youtube

[Alan Howe]

Krommer retains more of his own identity, I think - rather than recycling Beethoven's idiom, as Ries does (in his own manner, of course). I particularly like his writing for the brass.

[Mark Thomas]

Krommer has real individuality, I do agree.

[Ilja]

Krommer is of a an earlier generation, though, born in 1759, just three years after Mozart. Ries (b. 1784) immediately follows Beethoven, and I think should be compared more to Czerny (b. 1791), and perhaps also Loewe (b. 1796), both of whom sound far more adventurous to me.

[terry martyn]

But Krommer was composing his later symphonies contemporaneously with Ries, and his music sounds to me as if he had journeyed quite a long way from his first efforts,which predate those of Ries. The one that Ries penned ,to try and win the prize which Franz Lachner carried off (Nicolai coming second), seems particularly characterless,compared to the last symphony that Krommer composed.

As for the Ries violin concerto,I feel that he was still "learning his trade".

[Alan Howe]

Krommer's 9th was written in 1830 and actually post-dates all of Ries' symphonies except one! He may have been born a long time before Ries, but he is properly considered as his older contemporary.

[Ilja]

I think this says more about Krommer's ability to explore new paths and Ries' relative failure (or unwillingness) to do so. If you go from the latter's 1st to 8th symphony there's not a whole lot of progression, while Krommer's 9th arguably sounds more modern than either of Ries' symphonies. In fact, it already comes quite close to what his (near-)compatriot Kalliwoda, despite being more than forty years his junior, was up to at the time. Quite a remarkable degree of artistic progression.

[Hector]

I think the quite the opposite, that Ries' symphonies are more engaging than Krommer's, but then I never seem to agree with the consensus on this forum ( & this may be developing into a different thread than Ries' Violin Concerto)

[Alan Howe]

I think Ilja's right. In Ries, by contrast with Beethoven, there isn't a great sense of stylistic development over time - whereas, for example, the longer-lived Krommer's symphonies were written over a period of more than 30 years and show remarkable progression.

Anyway, as Hector suggests, this is really a thread about Ries' VC - which sounds to me less advanced in idiom than Beethoven's (or, say, VC1 by Franz Clement, for that matter). Nevertheless, it's a fine piece which I have thoroughly enjoyed in the Donderer/Riga performance.